The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby JornOvera » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:40 pm

Gondoristhebest wrote:you should read the book its my personal favorite in the world!


I completely agree. Absolutely fantastic story, great characters and themes, and pretty much applicable to all aspects of human nature, too.

Gondoristhebest wrote:i think that is true however, that the witching is more powerful near mordor.


Aye, especially with his pimpin' new hat! Or so the game tells us anyway. I think in the film, it was just an aesthetic thing to make him look immense. I like the way it makes him look kind of like a short version of Sauron too, as though he represents him on the battlefield. And since he's in command of the army, and he's a vessel of Sauron's power, that's probably the intention.

As for the Witch King nearly killing Gandalf, it was probably just a device to make the situation seem more hopeless. A spot of good old fashioned Hollywood escapism there.
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby stickybottle22 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:06 pm

"Aye, especially with his pimpin' new hat! Or so the game tells us anyway. I think in the film, it was just an aesthetic thing to make him look immense. I like the way it makes him look kind of like a short version of Sauron too, as though he represents him on the battlefield. And since he's in command of the army, and he's a vessel of Sauron's power, that's probably the intention."

yeah I love his helmet! I don't know if it really does add power to him, but it certainly does make an impression on the audience. sort of like the troll Aragorn fights in the movie at the black gate, it looks like Sauron. it's almost like he's the demon from the exorcist, putting his power into different forms hahaha
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby black1blade » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:20 am

It's probably because Sauron was originally met to be the one fighting aragorn but they changed it to the troll and kept the footage.
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby JornOvera » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:39 am

I heard about that! What a stupid idea.

Plus, some of the more colourful lines from the Exorcist mixed with LOTR can only be a good thing...
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby stickybottle22 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:49 pm

yeah, it would have been much more epic to see Aragorn fighting Sauron, the guy he was meant to combat, and it would be a great metaphor for him over coming his own personal rejection of being the king of men and embracing his destiny to fight and defeat Sauron. but hey, we got the troll chieftain out of it :twisted:
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby JornOvera » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:16 pm

stickybottle22 wrote:yeah, it would have been much more epic to see Aragorn fighting Sauron, the guy he was meant to combat, and it would be a great metaphor for him over coming his own personal rejection of being the king of men and embracing his destiny to fight and defeat Sauron. but hey, we got the troll chieftain out of it


That may well be the case. However:

1. It's just not practical. I mean...Sauron's an eye. The only thing he's had to combat recently is conjunctivitis.
2. It would have completely taken the focus away from every other character. If there's a chance of Aragorn beating Sauron in a fight, what the Middle Earth is Frodo doing trekking through Mordor?
3. While it may have been symbolic of Aragorn overcoming his own personal rejection of being the king of men and embracing his destiny to fight and defeat Sauron, I'm personally a massive fan of the fact that Sauron is the mean enemy in the story, he's the big boss...yet he never 'does' anything. It's much more symbolic of internal turmoil, I reckon.

I agree, it's what people want, to see the big hero fight the arch-villain, nearly die, then triumph by some bizarre twist of fate, but let's face it, it would have completely ruined the Lord of the Rings if they'd done it in the film. I think that if Tolkien was still alive to see the RoTK film, that would have killed him.
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby stickybottle22 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:34 am

JornOvera wrote:
stickybottle22 wrote:yeah, it would have been much more epic to see Aragorn fighting Sauron, the guy he was meant to combat, and it would be a great metaphor for him over coming his own personal rejection of being the king of men and embracing his destiny to fight and defeat Sauron. but hey, we got the troll chieftain out of it


That may well be the case. However:

1. It's just not practical. I mean...Sauron's an eye. The only thing he's had to combat recently is conjunctivitis.
2. It would have completely taken the focus away from every other character. If there's a chance of Aragorn beating Sauron in a fight, what the Middle Earth is Frodo doing trekking through Mordor?
3. While it may have been symbolic of Aragorn overcoming his own personal rejection of being the king of men and embracing his destiny to fight and defeat Sauron, I'm personally a massive fan of the fact that Sauron is the mean enemy in the story, he's the big boss...yet he never 'does' anything. It's much more symbolic of internal turmoil, I reckon.

I agree, it's what people want, to see the big hero fight the arch-villain, nearly die, then triumph by some bizarre twist of fate, but let's face it, it would have completely ruined the Lord of the Rings if they'd done it in the film. I think that if Tolkien was still alive to see the RoTK film, that would have killed him.



that last line was a lil' harsh but I see your point. would have been confusing, I like to think of it as Sauron sort of created a likeness of himself through a troll. not possession or absolute creation, just something in between there. Lurtz wasn't a character in the books, but I don't think anyone complained when he killed Boromir. gave a bit more impact to me than just seeing Boromir get swarmed and killed. love how Lurtz was the only one smart enough to shoot him though haha
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby JornOvera » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:26 am

I apologise for any offence caused. I just meant it was too much of a conflict against Tolkien's ideas.

And I've had a watch of PJ talking about the scene in question, which was interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqKt_h0E ... re=related

When I hear him talk about it, it doesn't sound as bad as I thought initially. Someone described this scene to me quite a while ago, and the way he described it made it sound like one of these '80s Ninja films with a budget of £4.30.

And you make a good point about Lurtz, although the following must be considered - Tolkien originally wrote the books as one story, so there was no need to have a big combat character at this stage. In fact, I found that his style of writing didn't go into much description of actual fights, leaving it to the reader's imagination more than anything, so there weren't really that many 'epic duels' like we see in films. Also, when the books were split up, that scene was essentially split in half. The Fellowship ends with strange noises in the woods, and Sam running after Frodo. It's not until the first chapter of the following book that Boromir dies, so to split the fight up like that wouldn't have worked either. In films, however, audiences really need some kind of big evil character for the hero to fight, as I was saying before. And it wasn't really in the character of Boromir to get killed by standard Uruk Hai. I mean let's face it, it's just not going to happen! While in the book, he had been killed by arrows, the film-makers predicted the audience needed some dramatic fight to end it with, especially considering it was just a small skirmish, and that the film's absolute ending is really quite anti-climactic.

The concept of Lurtz isn't quite as offensive as the concept of a physical Sauron, as it's possible there was a Lurtz figure at Amon Hen that just wasn't mentioned. In the books, Ugluk led the assault, and he's not even mentioned until after the battle, when they're returning to Isengard with Merry and Pippin (I think), whereas in the film, he comes across as a kind of second in command, who took charge after Lurtz got decapitated. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that if Tolkien had had Sauron fighting Aragorn in mind, he would have said it, if that argument makes sense.

Overall, I'm thinking that, Sauron being the main villain, anything as striking as him gaining physical form would have been mentioned, whereas Lurtz, while a cool character, is no more than one of many Captains, whose fate is not wholly important to the story.

Haha, and yes, kudos to Lurtz for thinking of using his bow.
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby JornOvera » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:27 am

And it's true, that Troll Chieftain is a fantastic model. (Just trying to link us back to the Battle Report we're supposed to be commenting on...)
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Re: The Siege of Minas Tirith COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS

Postby Lord Hyper » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:57 am

Haha, thanks dude!
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