Fixing Heroic Strike

For general discussions on the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game and its expansions.

Moderators: Rangers, Leaders

User avatar
Villager
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:24 pm

Fixing Heroic Strike

Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:48 am

So recently I presented this question to the GBHL team in their "Speak Friend and Question" video (btw if you haven't checked them out yet I would highly recommend their YouTube Channel) and I wanted to know what the community at large thought.

I do not like Heroic Strikes as they currently stand, because it punishes the higher FV heroes, for example (and perhaps the best example) Gil-galad.
Example: An Orc Captain is engaging Gil-galad in combat and calls a heroic strike and rolls a 6, bringing him to fight 10. Gil-galad, if he decides to respond in kind can only boost his FV to a 10 to tie the Orc Captain even though anything beyond a 1 would boost him above 10.

What I like about the rule as it stands: The Orc can choose to expend a point of might to potentially raise his fight to above Gil-galad if the Elf lord chooses not to respond in kind.

What I dislike about the rule: While Gil-galad will automatically become Fight 10 (which is the one advantage of being F9 with Heroic Strikes) if he calls a heroic, the fact that he is F9 to begin with is kind of lost in this instant and his might point effectively is "less valuable" than the Orcs as it cannot bring about much change.

My proposed change: Remove the F10 cap and allow for Characters like Gil-galad to effectively still trump their lower FV counter-parts if they choose to expend a point of might, rather than simply equalling them.

GBHL's Proposed change: Change the +D6 to FV to +D3.
Which is also a good idea, it severly lowers the amount of units that can boost to Fight 10 and cause the scenario listed above.

So having read all of that what do YOU think? Should Heroic Strikes be changed? Are any of the above solutions the "answer"? Or perhaps a combination of the two?

Villager
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:34 am

I think the D3 rule is great. It's far more realistic then the D6 rule, the D6 rule allows a orc captain to easlily win a fight from a mordor troll which I think is a bad thing plus it makes heroes like Boromir with 6 might really overpowerd.

User avatar
Standard Bearer
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:37 pm
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:01 am

I agree, changing it to a D3 bonus is much better. In fact, this is how Coën and I always play it.
We didn't think about removing the Fv10 cap (it simply didn't occur yet in our games), but I also like the idea!

So yeah, I'd say use both ideas!
Also known as "Fëanor, the mighty elf"

Squire
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:27 pm

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:06 pm

Actually two of my shops in the Washingon D.C. area play like this too. We use the D3 instead of the D6 as well because D6 is simply insane. In our opinion, a goblin captian should never be able to outfight a Balrog no matter how hard he tries.

Never thought of raising the Fight cap, but the D3 has been sufficient thus far.

Villager
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:30 pm

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:23 am

I think Heroic Strike is just fine. Most heroes have 2 or 3 Might, so they'll get to use it a handful of times only. Those might points are spent and can't be used to modify dice rolls or call heroic moves or combats.

High FV heroes are really not punished, they always have high fight and can save their might for other things.

User avatar
Standard Bearer
 
Posts: 2609
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:57 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, Durham

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:22 am

Damian wrote:High FV heroes are really not punished


Until they get their butts handed to them by a Goblin.

User avatar
Villager
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:24 pm

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:04 am

Damian wrote:I think Heroic Strike is just fine. Most heroes have 2 or 3 Might, so they'll get to use it a handful of times only. Those might points are spent and can't be used to modify dice rolls or call heroic moves or combats.

High FV heroes are really not punished, they always have high fight and can save their might for other things.


I simply meant they're "punished" by Heroic strike doing far less for them. In my above scenario the Orc captain has everything to gain by heroic striking while Gil-galad will merely tie the combat (and can do no better because of the Fight 10 Cap). So for Gil-galad Heroic strike gives him less, if that makes sense

Squire
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:27 pm

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:29 am

JamesR wrote:
Damian wrote:I think Heroic Strike is just fine. Most heroes have 2 or 3 Might, so they'll get to use it a handful of times only. Those might points are spent and can't be used to modify dice rolls or call heroic moves or combats.

High FV heroes are really not punished, they always have high fight and can save their might for other things.


I simply meant they're "punished" by Heroic strike doing far less for them. In my above scenario the Orc captain has everything to gain by heroic striking while Gil-galad will merely tie the combat (and can do no better because of the Fight 10 Cap). So for Gil-galad Heroic strike gives him less, if that makes sense


That sounds like a pretty good arguement to me. It is true that Might has become even more precious and most heroes dont have much of it. I guess I just felt a potential +6 fight is a bit insane for 1 point of might.

User avatar
Warrior
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:26 pm
Location: Retford, North Notts

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:22 am

Eldarion Telcontar wrote:
Damian wrote:High FV heroes are really not punished


Until they get their butts handed to them by a Goblin.


The thing is, that simply isn't going to happen, even in the stated example, supposing an Orc captain did roll a 6 for his Fight skill boost and managed to roll a 6 for his dual roll, he then has to roll further 6s to wound the def 7 Gil Galad, and unless he is on a warg he can't possibly do enough wounds to kill the elf lord in a single round anyway.

Besides, in the stated situation you are slightly muddling the procedure for declaring and making heroic actions. All heroic actions have to be declared at the start of the phase, so GG cannot declare a heroic strike after the Orc has rolled his d6 to see how much he boosts his F value by, not can he declare a HS after he has seen the Orc's duel roll. In real terms an elf player using GG would be pretty crazy to counter with his own heroic strike if you follow the declaration order correctly.

I'd argue that if you roll that many 6s in succession you probably deserve to win the fight.

IHMO heroic strike is a great rule, it has drastically cut down the dominance of uber-heroes in combat, this is especially important with characters like Azog and Bolg which have been introduced in The Hobbit game that combine high resilience, high fight value and high damage output in the same model. At the same time making a HS is still a risk, because you could roll a 1 and gain no discernible benefit from it.

One of the things the annoys me about might is that some of the heroic actions are worth much, much less than others and yet cost the same to perform. I mean when was the last time you saw someone perform a heroic accuracy, or even a heroic shoot? I almost always save my points for heroic combats, or in the case of mainly mounted armies, heroic moves.

Even in its current incarnation Heroic strike is a fair way down the list, it rarely guarantees boosting your fight value by enough to actually win a fight and you can still be foiled by a bad duel roll in any case. If heroic strike were just +D3 to fight skill then there would be too many situations where it would be useless and even a max roll wouldn't boost your fight skill enough to affect the combat, it would basically just become the new 'heroic accuracy'.
Spiney Norman, Former Standard Bearer of the Last Alliance

For the time will soon come when Hobbits will shape the fortunes of all.

User avatar
Warrior
 
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:02 pm

Totally agreed with Spiney, I think Heroic Strike is perfect the way it is. Everyone seems to be focused on how easy it is for a cheap hero to strike highly, but it's just as easy for them to fail and waste a Might point that could have been spent to boost their Duel roll, Heroic move next turn or even on their Fate points. What Heroic Strike does is give those heroes an option against the really big heroes that ordinarily they couldn't touch, and I reckon that's not a bad thing.
War is not about who's right, but who's left.

Next
Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests