Fixing Heroic Strike

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Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:41 pm

Hi. I have not played with the new rules yet so this is purely theoretic thinking. A well timed and well rolled heroic strike can be game changing, doing it in a turn when the enemy is surrounded and cant counter can kill him in one turn. However I don't really like your example with orc cap vs gilghalad. He does not having everything to win, he can easily roll to low, waist hismight point and get killed. If it were D3 I also believe it would not be used asmuch. Consider Faramir vs middle troll, to beat him In a HS Sith D3 he would need to roll 5-6, I would probably not take this chance. With D6 I only need 3+ to beat, I would take this chance and it still has a chance of failing. It encourages heroes to be brave.
Like I said however, this is all theoretical.
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Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:54 pm

Isilduin wrote:Totally agreed with Spiney, I think Heroic Strike is perfect the way it is. Everyone seems to be focused on how easy it is for a cheap hero to strike highly, but it's just as easy for them to fail and waste a Might point that could have been spent to boost their Duel roll, Heroic move next turn or even on their Fate points. What Heroic Strike does is give those heroes an option against the really big heroes that ordinarily they couldn't touch, and I reckon that's not a bad thing.


Actually I think the main application is more for the good side than the evil side. The evil side has always had a readily available foil for high F heroes in the form of transfix, immobilise is far less common to the good side and usually on models with extremely limited supply of might or in the case of the Istari, heroes that cannot lead warbands. Heroic strike gives their heroes a way to be able to out-duel heroes like Bolg, Azog and troll captains etc, and at the same time give them a viable counter for transfix
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Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:56 am

I thought Heroic strike was negated by Imobolise/transfix as the halving comes after the added fight.

And just to clarify my problem with heroic strike. It's only that high FV heroes like Gil-galad lose their fight value advantage that you are paying the points for. If they could boost above fight 10 with the expenditure of might I'd be fine with it but Heroic strike benefits them far less. But if a lower FV like a troll chieftain against Gil-galad the chieftain rolls a 3 he's at fight 10 and Gil-galad can only get there too and tie it. What I'm pointing out is Heroic strikemakes lower FV heroes might worth more.

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Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:43 am

JamesR wrote:I thought Heroic strike was negated by Imobolise/transfix as the halving comes after the added fight.

And just to clarify my problem with heroic strike. It's only that high FV heroes like Gil-galad lose their fight value advantage that you are paying the points for. If they could boost above fight 10 with the expenditure of might I'd be fine with it but Heroic strike benefits them far less. But if a lower FV like a troll chieftain against Gil-galad the chieftain rolls a 3 he's at fight 10 and Gil-galad can only get there too and tie it. What I'm pointing out is Heroic strikemakes lower FV heroes might worth more.


That is the case in all heroic actions though isn't it? Some heroes benefit from them more than other, heroic accuracy is of no value on a character with no shooting weapon, heroic channeling is of no value on a character with no magic powers etc.
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Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:57 pm

Spiney Norman wrote:Actually I think the main application is more for the good side than the evil side. The evil side has always had a readily available foil for high F heroes in the form of transfix, immobilise is far less common to the good side and usually on models with extremely limited supply of might or in the case of the Istari, heroes that cannot lead warbands. Heroic strike gives their heroes a way to be able to out-duel heroes like Bolg, Azog and troll captains etc, and at the same time give them a viable counter for transfix


I wasn't really being specific about alignments, I've never played the Good vs. Evil meta prevalent in other countries so wouldn't be able to comment on that. But playing the game without that restriction there is nothing that really makes Heroic Strike OP, and I honestly think it can make heroes like Gil-galad even better as often heroes will waste Might trying to get to F10.
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Re: Fixing Heroic Strike

Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:05 pm

I don't see HS as being too critical. Troops/heroes with low F values tend to also have lower everything else (might), using might to potentially win a fight may be good if 1; you are out numbered and don't want to be killed off this turn, 2; your opponent is calling Heroic fights etc and you want to foil his plan and cost him might. The other reason would be as mentioned, as a good player when you are under a spell (cast in the move phase) and want to counter it somehow so you don't die. if you only have 2 might points and you want to throw them away on a HS, then a gilgilad or dwarf player with high D or a player with high Fate should just smile and let him try.

I try not to use might to win fights (the above reasons have come up, but it was might used to change the dice score not to call an HS), as a fight win is not wound. So to make a special might sucking rule just to win tie duel rolls is ridiculous. You are better off taking the chance of wining the roll on your own and saving might for wounding, or heroic moves, or changing a fate roll to stay alive, you know good reasons.
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